Hey everyone, welcome back to The Sync
Podcast.
This is the space where we bring together
a community of inclusive-minded
individuals and
organizations who are committed to driving
real and lasting impact.
Because inclusion isn't just a concept,
it's a commitment to ensuring no one is
left behind.
Each episode, we sit down with change
makers who are reshaping systems and
building equity
in their industries, and today's guest is
doing just that in the healthcare space.
I'm thrilled to welcome Bob Gold, the
Chief Clinical Behavioural Technologist and
founder
of GoMo Health.
Bob is one of the world's leading
behavioural technologists with more than 20
years of experience
applying cognitive science to healthcare.
His work focuses on integrating
psychosocial and personal determinants
into physical and
behavioural care plans, especially for
underserved and vulnerable populations.
Through GoMo Health, he's transforming how
health systems, pharma companies, and
governments
deliver care, making it more personalized,
equitable, and sustainable.
And if that weren't enough, Bob's work is
also helping healthcare professionals
rediscover
meaning and joy in their practice.
Welcome, Bob.
So, Bob, welcome to the Sync Podcast.
It's great to have you joining us today
from Asbury Park, New Jersey.
We don't usually get people from south of
the border, so it's nice to have some
variety on
our show.
So, Bob, we were looking into your
background, and you've had a pretty
interesting trajectory
going from starting tech companies into
the behavioural health space.
And give me a sense of what prompted you
to make the shift.
Like, it's not necessarily an obvious
leap.
Yeah, you know, Nicole, life's a journey.
So, in between all that, I owned and
operated Magnet Pictures.
It was an animation company.
We won two Emmy Awards.
We did all the animation on the Rosie
O'Donnell show and the Nanny.
Wow.
I don't know if that made it.
I think they probably made its way to
Canada, those shows.
It did.
And then for five or six years, I decided
to buy a 90-acre plot of land, and I
turned
it into an organic farm.
We had a community-supported agriculture
program, and very fascinating.
So, yes, I've done a lot of different
things.
You've reinvented yourself multiple times.
You actually make me think of a friend of
mine who, during the pandemic, he left his
job
as a CFO in the mining industry to go
start to become an olive grower in Greece,
and he now
has multiple olive groves.
So, you're a bunch of Renaissance men in
my orbit here.
There you go.
Talk to me about GoMo Health, because
it's, to me, what speaks to me about the
whole concept
of it is it's groundbreaking in the mental
health space, and really is a vehicle to
bringing
mental health to a broader community.
So, talk to us about what prompted you to
start GoMo Health.
Yeah, so my, actually, I got involved in
understanding how the human brain works
and how it results
in various behaviours.
Actually, when I was working in the
financial services industry, trying to get
traders to
understand 20 dimensions of data very
simply, how do they process that, how does
the brain
work, and can they make a decision?
How does it affect their behaviours?
So, and then from there, I was involved in
the astronauts with NASA and helping them
cognitively
understand the 186 knobs, and then with
some marine pilots, and I applied it to
loyalty systems.
So, I began to work in the 90s with some
of the top neuroscientists, behavioural,
clinical,
developmental psychologists on how the
brain and resulting behaviours work.
And then about 10 years ago, as I was
getting older, I wouldn't say I'm maturing
at all because
I've stayed the same since I was a kid.
But as I was getting older, you know, we
all experience health.
Health is part of everyone's life.
And I really saw that a lot of the way
health is delivered doesn't really address
the brain
and brain health in a way that is helpful
to people at home, work, and play outside
the
few minutes they may have in a therapy
session.
So, that's how I started the health, you
know, journey.
You know, it's wild to me because you go
from working in the entertainment industry
to working,
you know, with astronauts and submarine
engineering.
And I worked, I spent a lot of my career
in the financial industry.
I started out my career in banking and on
the trader floor, in fact, is where I
started out.
And so, hearing you talking about the
unique beast that is trader psychology and
how that
plays into the decision making, the
reactions, and even, frankly, the
emotional state that
you're in when you're in that high intense
space, ironically, pretty relevant in the
past few
days, to thinking about the neurology and
the brain functioning behind mental
health.
You're right.
We always talk about mental health as a
product, sort of like what we see after
the fact.
But you're talking about what's going on
before that sort of prompts what you're
seeing.
Is that, is that a fair?
And the reason why I use brain health
versus mental health, there is some
connotations that
may not be really true in the term.
Mental health means to a lot of people,
someone has an issue.
Like, so I have anxiety, I have stress, I
have depression, I have borderline
personality disorder,
or I have a clinical diagnosis of mental
health.
And that could be true.
And GoMo works with a lot of people like
that.
But everyone has one brain.
And even with people with diabetes or
other issues, you know, your brain decides
to not
eat right.
Your brain decides to not exercise.
Your brain decides, unless you're a type
one diabetic, which you were genetically
disposed,
type two diabetes, your stomach doesn't
decide to be a type two diabetic, your
brain does.
So, so the idea of brain health is we've,
we have a digital therapeutic that we
developed
using the science of 30 years with
algorithms on how to get people to have
more self-awareness
and critical awareness of who and what
they are and how decisions affect and to
help them form
a routine, which then could become a
schedule, which then starts to change
their outlook.
And we give them little things to do, and
they feel good and successful, and they
feel more
invested that they can get through this.
And then that outlook change is beginning
to change some cells in the brain and the
construction
of matter in the brain, which is in
science world called neuroplasticity.
So instead of, and that's how you form a
habit.
So instead of ruminating about your
issues, we engage people in small
snackable bites throughout
their day, ask a lot of questions, adjust,
and help them have a positive outlook.
But that takes time and discipline.
It's not just a couple messages.
It takes a while.
And also what it speaks to is it's not
transactional in nature in that you're not
sort of sitting,
you know, getting in your car, driving to
a therapist.
It's not that there's anything wrong with
that, that element of, of helping mental
health or
supporting mental health issues.
But what I'm saying is that this speaks to
me as looking at this much more
holistically and
seeing that brain health has knock-on
effects in my, from what I'm hearing from
you, both
beyond the brain, physically, elsewhere,
and also has what we call mental health
benefits.
Is that a fair?
Yeah, so two things.
So from, let's say, just an employer
perspective or employee, I'm one of a few
people in the
U.S.
on this team to quantify, from an economic
perspective, the economic benefits of
brain health.
Now, if you look at, there's definitely
correlations between simple things like
absenteeism, retention, workman's comp.
And then, fascinatingly, there are
correlations to gross margin, innovation,
process improvement.
So, yeah, so the idea of helping people,
their brain get better, the opportunity to
help people
brain get better, not only helps the
individual, but can help a company, a
government, a healthcare
institution, right?
So it has far reaching effects.
So, so this really resonates with me.
Not that everything you haven't said that
you've said hasn't resonated with me, but
what
this sort of ties very closely to the
approach and philosophy behind our
organization Synclusiv.
So we absolutely believe that there are
ethical benefits to be, to being more
inclusive and having
more inclusive workplaces.
You know, we absolutely believe it's the
right thing to do.
And from what I'm hearing from you, it is
taking care of your health, taking care of
your brain
health has, it is the right thing to do.
But beyond that, it is directly correlated
with higher performance, higher
engagement, higher
innovation, higher return on investment.
And so at the end of the day, what, what
I'm hearing from you is very much what I
always say about
inclusion is there's nothing but upside.
Like it's, it's, it's all upside.
Take care of yourself, take care of your
brain, take care of your performance, but
also take care of many
other aspects of your life.
Yeah.
And, um, and one interesting way we do
that is, uh, practice.
So one of the interesting things when I
came into healthcare 10 years ago, I said,
it's fascinating.
Healthcare doesn't apply basic techniques
that every other industry does in
following people.
You know, so I'll give you an example.
Football is 32 to one practice to play
similar soccer, um, acting is the same
way.
So I'll give you an example.
If you're going to learn to play the
piano, just, so what happens is let's
equate the piano
instructor to a therapist or a primary
care doctor or nurse or pharmacist.
So they'll come to your house.
So you'll go to them for half an hour and
they'll play with you.
And then what do they say, Nicole, Hey, if
you want to make high school band, you
have
to practice an hour a day.
You want to make the Toronto symphony.
Oh, that's four hours a day.
You want to make the Boston symphony.
It's eight hours a day.
And then, and then they may watch you come
back and watch you, but you have to
practice.
Well, what's the concept?
I wake up one day and, uh, the world's
messed up and I have tremendous anxiety.
I lost my job.
Now I'm becoming depressed.
So I go to, let's say, even if I have a
therapist to go to, I go to them, but then
I go back to
work life and play.
How do I practice living with depression
and then working my way out of it?
And then ultimately threat?
What's the concept of practice?
That's what GOMO does.
We give people little things to do and
everything is personalized.
So we engage 10 million lives a month
across the world and no one gets the same
messages.
So again, we have a vetted evidence-based
science with algorithms.
So based on how you answer questions,
based on your family situation, based on
what you're
going through, it adjusts.
So when we ask you something, you're more
likely to answer because you see how it
adjusts to you.
So you feel like it's your plan of care.
You feel like your lifestyle is
influencing what we're suggesting.
It's not some smart third-party clinician
just telling you the six things to do.
And you're sitting there saying, you don't
know who I am.
I can't do those things.
It makes no sense whether you should or
not.
You know, so that's how we kind of work.
It's sort of fascinatingly different.
Well, first of all, the thing that really
is exciting to me about what you just said
is you are
literally getting a unique fit-for-purpose
support system to help you to optimize
your brain and mental
health and to achieve your goals in terms
of, you know, whatever you're trying to
adapt to or manage
through.
And so that's the first thing that super
excites me about this because I worked,
I spent a lot of my time in remote regions
across the world, frankly.
And one of the challenges that we face in
remote regions is a lot of people don't
understand the
unique contexts that people are confronted
with when a lot of therapists and a lot of
these
systems are sort of designed around urban
settings and people who live in fairly
urban environments
that are supported by the resources that
are available to you in an urban
environment.
And so often the feedback I would get from
staff being a head of HR is they don't
understand.
Like this, this, this is the city folks
trying to tell me what it's like here.
They don't understand.
You know, I'm by myself.
My family's all back in who knows where
back in, you know, in Utah.
And I'm out here in Northern Canada and I
have nobody around me who I care about.
And I feel very isolated.
No one understands that.
And you're trying to tell me, fix
yourself.
Like it's your, it's like, essentially
it's you.
And so what I'm hearing from you is this
is looking at where, meeting you, where
you're at
and adapting to something that's taking
incrementally along your journey to where
you want to be.
And customized is rare.
And, you know, I'll give you a concrete
example in a second about that.
But in many people's lives,
GOMO is the only intimate thing they feel
comfortable saying things to.
I mean, it's tough to look at another
human and say,
I may harm myself or others, or I can't do
this anymore.
I'm going to leave my wife, whatever it
may be, but telling us, because we're not
threatening
and they see how we are supportive, we can
help them alter their thinking errors
through
our algorithms.
Right.
So to give you an example of what we're
saying, and we would love to do programs
in Canada with the indigenous folks.
But to give you an example, we have a
program in Montana and 25% of the folks
are from indigenous tribes.
There's six tribes, some live on the
reservation, some live off, and this is a
drug court treatment program with Montana.
So it's for discharged prisoners and folks
picked up by police and people who have
nonviolent substance.
And it also includes employers' recovery
treatment and recovery program.
The whole drug court treatment program is
a year and it's intensive from a therapist
perspective.
The first month or so, you know, you, you
go, and then you have a peer support
specialist that continues with you for
three months.
But basically after about six months and a
few sessions, you have, you're, you're on
your own, but even during that you're on
your own 99% of the time.
So what happened is at the end of the
year, we got thousands of people in that
program to request GoMo, have an alumni
program.
So we're with people after they graduate.
So we, so now we're with them and it goes,
it gets a little less.
Our messages get less.
It's more lifestyle mode.
But the data is we got 50% of the people
back to full-time employment.
And, uh, we engage with folks, let's say
on the reservation differently than if
they live in Billings.
Cause you know, there's different belief
systems.
So, but we ask, we just don't assume,
right?
So we ask, and we individualize it because
no two people are alike.
Uh, and to give you one fascinating
example, never before in the world was
this discovered.
So we discovered that people with
substance use and treatment or recovery
who have children ages seven to 17 have
three times as much relapse and rearrest
because the stigma, they feel so bad about
themselves.
They don't know how to communicate, they
don't know how to communicate, they don't
know how to communicate, it keeps them on
edge, it produces more thinking errors.
So we have a parenting track that we've
given them activities, here's something to
do, here's how you communicate.
And then we also have a support person
track for their spouse or loved one or
parent who's ever helping them.
Because a lot of times families try to
help the person who's experiencing, call
it a behavioural health issue or substance,
but they don't know what to do.
And sometimes they create more stigma, not
on purpose.
Right.
And then what happened is you saw the data
go down.
So now we've reduced the relapse and
rearrest with people who have children age
seven to 17.
But because we collect over 50 to 100 data
points longitudinally on people that are
never collected, the only thing that's
typically collected are notes when I go
see my therapist or I go whatever.
Right.
But you're not collecting all other data
about what's happening at home, at work,
in my family, we are.
So just think about the value of that data
to employers, to health systems, to
clinics, to governments.
That is incredibly powerful because one of
the things that I observed in my 30 years
in HR and managing benefits programs, and
we had a number of employees who would
frankly cycle through facilities, rehab
facilities, and we'd take them to the more
sophisticated and, frankly, more expensive
facilities progressively to try and get
them all the help that we could.
And we scratch our heads at why we would
have relapses.
And one of the things, anecdotally,
completely anecdotally, because I started
to just ask questions, because I used to
reach out to these folks one-on-one just
to say, how can I help you?
Like, I just don't understand.
I just want to be able to help.
And one of the things, anecdotally, that
we heard from them was, so let me just
take our Indigenous employees.
I had a white therapist who had no clue
what my reality is like and what I'm going
back to when I go home and that I'm going
to be surrounded by people who are using
and that, like, the community has an
issue.
And I don't have a support system when I
go back that's going to help me to stay on
track.
And they don't understand the lived
history of my people that has, you know,
that has contributed to my experience.
And the same was the case with some of our
Black employees who would say, like, this
person does not understand.
I want a Black therapist.
Well, go and try and find Black
therapists.
You know, there was a time when you could
not find therapists that could, you know,
that sort of would meet the needs of the
employee.
And so what I'm hearing from you is the
adaptability of the program, but also the
ability to actually pinpoint what are the
factors that are leading to relapse so
that you can address those factors and
what it caused you to realize, again,
coming back to the notion of holistic that
you mentioned earlier.
Like, you're looking at this from the
angle of what are the support systems and
how do we equip those support systems to
be able to support the outcome that this
person is looking for.
Because we are fairly widely deployed, I
mean, we work with over 20,000 clinicians,
therapists, folks, peer support, others
who use GoMo because they get the data
back before and after the appointment.
And also, they love it because we're like
them being with people in the field,
helping them practice, apply, rethink the
very principles that they're teaching them
in a group or individual session.
Now they're able to apply and practice it.
And interestingly, what some
organizations, behavioural health
organizations have done is they use the
data from people that are collected in
their group sessions and they spit it back
to people.
Hey, we see that a third of you think this
and that.
So now they've figured out how to
integrate a digital therapeutic with human
therapy in one seamless protocol so it's
not separate, right?
So there's fascinatingly new techniques on
redefining clinical pathways, care plans
that we've helped our clinicians discover
how to do that.
So question I have for you, because you
can't help people who don't come to the
table for help.
So, and I can tell you coming from, I was
born in Jamaica and that even the notion
of mental health in Jamaica is anathema.
Like people don't even, no one wants to
hear that, you know, you're struggling in
any way.
They can understand you having something
like cancer or diabetes or, but they don't
culturally relate to behavioural health
issues.
They consider it your fault, your problem,
fix it, behave yourself. And so how do you
cross that divide culturally to, because you
can't help people who won't come to the table
for help.
So how do you, how does GoMo break down
those barriers and, frankly, cultural
stigmas associated with the sorts of, you
know, remedies, I wouldn't even want to
call them remedies, but solutions, you
can't, if you can't get them to the table.
So how do you, I mean, first, let me say
nothing in the world works for everybody,
right?
So, and no therapy, drug, anything works
for a hundred percent.
So, so, but if we could affect 30%, 50%,
70%, but just to give you an idea, I'll
tell you how we do it in a second.
But just to give you an idea in the U.S.,
across black, white, brown culture, across
everyone, socioeconomic, 20% of women
don't go see any doctor, physical, mental,
and 30% of men.
Now, if you get into some specifics, I
think Hispanics, it's like over 40%.
Black is about 35%.
So, so how we kind of do that is if
someone is just getting our message
through their employer, hospital, health
plan, through their town, you know, we
have some towns now that are starting with
GoMo, you know, healthy city.
So, so it could be a community center.
We have the United Way sponsor some of our
programs.
So if someone's willing, so we, like I
said, we, we have a thing unlearning to
learn.
It's sort of a concept.
So what that means is we start out by
asking questions, first of all, because if
we're expecting someone to be loyal or
stay with the program, we have to show
them loyalty first.
It's not, Hey, we're going to tell you
what, tell us what your problem is.
We're going to tell you what to do.
So we ask questions in the digital
engagement and based on your answers, it
may ask some other questions.
Right.
Right.
And then like, for example, if, you know,
if you indicate that you'll never go see a
doctor, we say, why, you know, whatever,
why?
Like, and, and we have now the eight top
choices.
So we don't, we just say, check which box
plus other.
And so that's used in to help understand.
And then the system is addressing those
things.
So we first have to let the person know
and believe that we're kind of trying to
understand them.
Right.
So cognitively and behaviourally trust is
you will not put me in harm's way.
Or I will not put myself in harm's way.
Okay.
And on a given issue, trust is absolute on
a particular issue.
So credibility is you will further my
cause or I will further my cause.
There's three levels of credibility,
perceived, surface and earned.
So there's eight factors in someone's own
believability, all of us.
And if I just use trust and credibility as
two main and I score them on a one to five
each.
If we could build up where the engagement
score is a seven between trust and
credibility, you'd be shocked.
We could get almost anyone to do anything
we ask them to do.
Okay.
Now, so first of all, trust how, how it
works scientifically.
Trust.
I can't trust something if I don't believe
it knows anything about me.
So we ask a lot of questions because
initially, even if GoMo or the program is
perceived as credible, like it could help
me.
So maybe I begin to give it a three for
credibility, but a one, a one for trust.
So I'm at a four, a four, we're not going
to move the needle.
So then I start, we start asking questions
and it starts adjusting and we give them
little things to do.
And they're like, oh, okay.
You know, I'm, I see.
And then we start maybe suggesting
different ways of thinking about your
spouse or your work or your life.
And they're starting, okay, maybe, you
know, maybe I'll listen now a little more.
Okay.
So now we're building points on both trust
and credibility.
So that's the idea of what we do.
That's why it's not a magic bullet.
Things take time to earn people's respect.
But if you do that, the results are
amazing.
And like to just talk one example.
So in Kenya, to your point about Jamaica.
Right.
So we have a program around pregnancy and
we reduced the preterm birth rate of women
in Kenya who go through our program from
country average of 12% to under 1%.
Now, interestingly, we discovered that in
many parts of Kenya, what you said about
mental health, especially with women, like
they don't, the doctors, the OBGYNs or
paediatricians, whatever, they don't want
to deal with that.
There was no protocol.
There were no social workers.
There was no one helping the woman with
her mental state.
So we were.
And then what we did is we collected this
data and we showed it to the largest
health system in Kenya, who's our partner.
And they agreed to add social workers to
their protocol for the first time ever in
the country based on our data.
And so we helped them realize that their
belief system and not addressing that
needs to change.
And we changed it.
But you know what I'm hearing from you is
because to your point, if I go back to
what you said at the outset, everybody's
got a brain.
So at the end of the day, denying that,
you know, culturally saying that this is
not this doesn't exist or we don't
recognize this or we don't acknowledge
this does not make it go away.
It's there.
And what I love about what you're saying
is you're working the inroad to these
communities that culturally this is not
part of their lexicon.
It's not part of the things that they're
thinking about is go use working with
their community and their systems and
their structures and the people that they
already trust is a way of getting them to
at least try these new tools and systems
and processes.
And ways of looking at things and thinking
that has all of these systemic benefits to
the community.
And, you know, like right now, you know,
we have over 200 employers that use GOMO.
But just to give you an example, we're in
conversations with a few large employers
that have over 300,000 people.
Now, the characterization of these are
fast paced churn and burn types of
organizations.
So now the income is at least middle to
upper, you know, they pay well, but
there's tremendous you have to be away
from your family, you have to travel, you
have this churn and burn mentality, you
can't do this.
So it's to your point, Nicole, everybody
has one brain and sees issues.
So the cost to that employer every time
someone quits or gives up, the cost of
them being innovative or processing
information or listening is so high.
So those are just as valuable as the
examples we gave about an indigenous
person way up in Canada.
I mean, people are people and that's why I
use the term brain health.
It doesn't mean you're clinically
diagnosed with an issue, but how do I cope
with my life, especially today with
everything going on?
It's funny because, you know, a few things
come to mind.
I would say even let's take pandemic to
today, because frankly, the last five
years have been, you know, a bit of a poop
show.
And we've we saw so many people struggling
with mental health issues and coping,
struggling just with coping to a new
paradigm that we were literally thrust
into during the pandemic.
Like one day to the next, we're isolated,
we have to queue up to go into the grocery
store, where there's services that you
just simply can't access because they were
shut down.
And, you know, schooling was completely
different.
Kids who were starting school were not
even physically starting school.
They were starting school online and
teachers were having to adapt.
My husband retired because the pandemic
was just brutal on him as a professor.
And so I think more and more, these issues
like GoMo is going to be as is more
relevant than it ever was, frankly, in our
in out in my world anyways, before.
And the far reaching capability of GoMo is
what really excites me, because it means
that if I'm in a rural community with a
population of 300 people, I can get
support.
And I'm not dependent, but I mean, it
requires communities to tap into this in
order to be able to get that support.
But the second thing that comes to mind
also, after what you were saying, and
that's in light of, you know, the world
we're in today, is how do you deal with
this?
We're dealing in this world where there's
such skepticism around health and
everybody thinks they're an expert on
health.
And we've got these outlandish theories.
And I'm going to call it what I think it I
call them outlandish.
I consider them outlandish theories that
people are not founded on any medical or
any scientific basis.
Like, how are you dealing with all of
this?
Because this is going to create hurdles
for you working in the in the health
space, any kind of health space.
Oh, believe me, I need a lot of help on my
brain health going.
You know, in health care, to move a
staple, one inch is 20 committee meetings.
So, yeah.
So it's look, it's you have to like any
change agent.
You have to fight through it.
There are pockets of people.
So we don't need to do it everywhere.
We find people who are really into this.
And, you know, we could do it one
community at a time, one employer.
And, you know, it's fine.
You know, we just need to find the right
people.
But to tell you a story about the far
reaching nature, here's here's one thing
that I didn't accomplish that would I
would love to.
So this is about five years ago or so, it
was pre-COVID.
I got a call from the National Health
System of Ireland and they're running out
of money, less money, and they had to
close a lot of their remote clinics in
Western Ireland.
And so they wanted someone to come and
talk to them and their hospitals and the
folks like, how do they deal if there's no
clinic available now for four or five
hours away?
Like, what's the, what is the engagement
approach?
Whatever.
So I went over and my kind of tour guide
driver that picked me up and went with me.
So we're into it and he was about two days
into it after he heard about, he's at the
four meetings.
He goes, Bob, here's what I'd like to do.
He goes, believe it or not, I was a
Catholic priest for 20 years and I got
burnt out.
So now I work at a regular job.
I just got, I'm going to talk to the
archbishop.
He goes, think about it.
Catholic priests have zero to talk to.
Like everyone, they need to be looked upon
as I could go talk to them.
So they can't see their local
psychiatrist, counsellor.
They can't, you know, and, you know,
they're, they can't get married.
So they, you know, so they really have no
outlet.
So it's all built in.
And I just like, I couldn't take it.
I just, so I left, but he goes something
like yours where they could transparently
and non-threateningly help them would be
awesome.
So anyway, so we had a couple of meetings
after that.
He tried, but it never went anywhere, but
I'm just giving you an example.
That is a perfect example.
I'll give you an example.
It's like to, to your point about a
community of 300 people have no, like
here's people,
nothing to do with money or anything.
They just, they can't be known as someone
who has all these mental health issues.
Now, whether that should be or not, they
need an outlet.
GOMO could be that outlet.
So it's very interesting to think about
that, or it could be executives at a
company.
Forget all the employees for a second.
It could be management.
And I can tell you, having worked in
senior executive roles in some of, you
know, the larger companies in the world,
executives, I think a little bit more
recently, they start to take care of
their, their mental health and their, you
know, their, there's a little bit more
focus on those things.
But for the longest time, there was a huge
stigma around someone who is seen as
leading the ship, needing help of any
kind, frankly.
And, and, and I come back to what you said
before that I've said repeatedly is
everybody's got a brain.
We're all human.
Why do you think that because you're in
some sort of lofty position that you're
exempt from needing any kind of support?
And I think that the, the, the, the key to
what GOMO does is it meets you where you
are from what I'm hearing you.
So suppose you don't necessarily have a
diagnosis per se, but you just want to
feel better, or you just want to, or you
set a goal for yourself.
It, from what I'm hearing, it sort of
gives you something, assesses you where
you are, and then you, you, it takes you
where it helps you to get where you want
to be, wherever that is.
Yeah.
So, yes.
Because, you know, it's basically like a
big, to simplify it, a big business rules
engine.
So if we're licensed by an employer or a
clinic or a town or a tribe, and they say,
these are the things we're trying to do.
You know, these are the measures.
This is what we want to try to make.
We configure the algorithms to, against
those particular things.
So it's not the same for everyone.
So if it's more like, hey, this is a
motivational tool, that's it.
We just want to motivate and inspire
people.
But how people get inspired are
individualized.
So GoMo is good at that.
We ask questions and, and the, we, our
system, even though it's in messaging, has
a, the tone could change what we present
to you, the way we do it.
So it's set to the, to the issues or
challenges that the organization may have,
has.
It's not just one size fits all.
That's how it works.
I love that.
And so I'm going to take you back to
something we've heard you say, and you
talk about bringing joy in practice back
to clinicians.
What do you mean by that?
And how does that tie into what GoMo means
for clinicians?
Because, you know, we've talked about what
it means for patients or, I don't even
want to use patients, users.
What does it mean for clinicians?
Yeah, so there's two, I'll just going to
divide it into two areas.
So at the real tactical behavioural
economic level for clinicians is we've
increased appointment shows, like in many
of the programs, from 50% to 90%.
So in a lot of cases, clinicians don't get
paid unless people show up.
So at one level, having people stay,
because, you know, in, in mental health or
brain health or in anything, I'm feeling
good today.
I don't need any more help.
You know, it's like once and done.
Okay.
So at a, at a real tactical level, there's
some financial gain there.
But what it really does for them is how
could they help their people who go into
that role?
It's a helping profession.
Yeah.
They want to see help.
And if you look at it, they get frustrated
because they can't be with, they're
telling them what to do.
But they can't be there with them.
They can't help them practice.
They can't.
And they can't just feel calls all the
time.
And they have a life too.
So what we, we, for the clinicians, we're
doing 90% of the communications, basically
all the engagement when they're not with
them for their 15 minutes or hour, which
is 99%.
And we're reinforcing what they're doing.
So the outcomes are much better.
They're like, if you look at the A1C gets
lower, the weight, hypertension goes down,
you know, they're staying on their meds if
that's what's required.
So it's like clinicians feel like better
because they're accomplishing more at a
human level.
Okay.
And they're getting more interesting data,
which alters some of their thought process
about how to spend their 15 minutes with
someone.
Like, okay, because they're getting other
data that they never had before.
So those are some of the ways.
So it's really brings back a lot of joy in
practice.
Plus, a lot of folks feel, oh, the money
ain't what it used to be.
And we have to see five times more
patients to make a buck.
Well, with GOMO, they can see a little bit
more patients and not be on call 24-7
because we're engaging.
And then we do escalate based on certain
business rules back to the humans.
Okay.
Based on their business rules.
Right.
Yeah.
So it really helps them, the staff,
accomplish what they need to accomplish.
It helps with referrals.
People say, oh, where do you get that?
Oh, I get that from Dr.
Jones.
Oh, my therapist or doctor doesn't help me
in my work life.
Like, oh, that's fascinating.
I'm going to switch to Dr.
Jones.
So it also helps with referrals and helps
their brand in the market.
That's why.
That's how we bring back joy.
Well, I think that's fabulous because
really it's your own little pocket tool as
a clinician to stay connected with your
patient outside of, to your point, the
time that they're interacting with you
directly.
So where do you go?
So where do you go from here?
Like, what's the next horizon?
Because you're like someone who's been all
over, done almost everything.
So where do you go from here?
Oh, there's so much more to learn and do.
But we're going to be announcing this
summer the formation of a specialty women,
children and family division of the
company.
We just co-sponsored with the Center for
Brain Health, University of Texas, the
first ever deep dive into the women's
brain and its effect during pregnancy,
menopause and other things.
So fascinatingly, we had Dr.
Emily Jacobs from UCAL Santa Barbara show
that a woman's brain changes more during
pregnancy than an adolescent brain
changes.
We had Dr.
Jessica Shepard talk about the brain and
the effect on hormones during menopause.
And those are things that haven't been
well researched or studied.
And then what to do about them, the effect
on a woman's life and behaviour.
So GoMo has a line of specific programs
around women's health, brain health, that
affect their body in ways that don't
happen in men.
Right.
So so that's exciting.
Like we're really exploring.
So that's something we're going to be
really diving into.
We're looking for partners and folks and,
you know, and if you look at it like a lot
of our clients are hospitals and health
plans and some employers.
From an employer perspective, every
hospital and health plan are 80 percent
women.
Approximately in the world.
Eighty percent women.
The nurses, the dieticians, the social
workers, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
So and yet.
The particular body, brain connection.
GoMo's on helping lead that effort and
adjusting how we engage and help them in
very powerful ways.
So that's one thing.
That is super exciting.
And here's the takeaway, because we've
been talking about, you know, mental
health.
And that's why I want to bring us back to
what you did say, which is brain health,
because, you know, people think about the
more dramatic or acute mental health
issues when they think about the kinds of
support and interventions that you may
have.
But what you're talking about is there are
normal cycles we go through as a human
being that have behavioural, cognitive, you
know, implications for you and physical
implications.
And as someone who is postmenopausal, who
is menopausal, I can tell you, women,
ladies out there, there are very material
changes to your, to everything, frankly,
just about everything.
The shape of your body, the way you think
about things, the way you react to things,
your patience, all of these things that.
And you, you will sometimes not even
recognize yourself because it happens so,
it's such an about face from what you may
have been used to throughout your life.
And to think that you are starting to dive
in to understand more what's going on
here, that is absolutely going to be very
welcome.
Let me speak on behalf of women, at least
that I know, very welcome.
Yeah, and just, you know, seven out of our
top 10 execs at GoMo are women.
So we, we, we over-index.
And so just a couple comments.
Yes.
Some of our modules to get specific,
depending on the circumstance and the
people, are flexibility of thinking.
So think about that in a work environment
or in an organization that there's a lot
of change going on or issues.
So it has modules about exploring how you
think and helping you look at things from
multiple dimensions, other dimensions,
right?
So it's not necessarily I'm having issues,
but how can we help you?
Imagine if you're a manager, supervisor,
or even trying to solve a problem at home,
or how do you think?
The other is social connectiveness, and
there's more lonely, isolated people who
have 20,000 friends on their social thing.
But what's really connectiveness with
people, and what can you do to form those
bonds?
So those are things we do in our science.
I'll just give you an example.
It's not just, okay, you're depressed, and
make sure you take your
antidepressant.
You know, it's like, really, it's just
helping people.
So my summary and my conclusion is, we're
the brain gym.
Right.
So people go to a gym for their body.
What's the gym for the brain?
That's never been around.
But the brain controls the body.
So if you don't have a healthy brain,
believe me, your body ain't going to be
healthy.
So if you want to sum us up, we're the
brain gym.
We help you practice.
You're the brain gym.
We're the brain gym.
Well, we're going to let you go, Bob, but
we always ask all of our guests this last
question before we let you go.
How do you make sure that you are always
living your values and your purpose in the
work that you do?
I don't know how to answer that, but if
you go to our, that's who I am, and that's
who we are.
And there's no one at my whole company
that is not living those values.
They don't last.
So, you know, even though we're not a
nonprofit, I tell our people, you know, I
think I believe we help more people in the
world than most nonprofits, you know,
because being a profit or nonprofit
doesn't have to necessarily do it all your
values and what you do.
So this is kind of the get back, and we're
hoping to break into Canada and do more of
this work in Canada.
So, yeah, listen, we need you in Canada.
I'm hoping to do that.
Well, we'll be in touch, Bob, and just for
our guests and our audience, you know, Bob
Gold from GoMo, absolutely incredible work
that you're doing.
We'll make sure that your contact
information and everything and how we can
reach you is available in our podcast when
we launch it.
And I also want to let everybody know,
please like and subscribe so you can get
more of this stuff and keep in contact
with the Bob Golds of this world.
But thanks so much for being with us today
at the Sync Podcast.
You're welcome, Nicole.
It was a pleasure.
Have a nice rest of the day.
Thanks.
Thanks for tuning in to the Sync Podcast.
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