Welcome, everyone, to another inspiring
episode of The Sync Podcast, where we
explore the value
of an inclusive approach in the way we
think, work, and engage with our
communities and workplaces.
Where we show that the meaning of
inclusion, contrary to what many may
believe,
is about leaving no one behind.
Each episode features candid conversations
with thought
leaders and change makers, driving
inclusive initiatives across various
sectors.
Our goal
is to create a community of
inclusive-minded individuals and
organizations committed to
collective and sustainable impact.
I'm your host, Nicole Piggott, and today
we have a very special
guest with us, Alex Snider.
Alex is a keynote speaker, strategic
advisor, and the host of The
Builders podcast.
With an impressive career that includes
completing a $2 billion divestment in the
natural resource sector and tripling the
revenues of a tech firm in just 10 months,
Alex has led strategic
planning and operational improvement for
FTSE 100 companies across four continents.
She now advises
impact-driven business leaders on building
world-class companies with
best-in-category performance.
Her insights have been featured at
industry-leading conferences such as
Volcano Summit, Impact Hub,
and Collision Conference.
Welcome, Alex Snider.
So, Alex, it's great to have you with us
today on The Sync Podcast.
We always kick these off with a little
chat about your background and your
history.
I know you well, but I'd love for my
audience to know more about Alex Snider.
So, give us a little bit of your
background.
What led you to become a strategic
advisor?
Alex Snider.
Well, thank you so much for having me,
Nicole.
I'm so excited to be here and to dig into
all the good things that we're going to
talk about.
Yes, you and I do know each other quite
well, so you know a lot of the story.
I think it sounds kind of wild, but
hindsight's always 20/20.
And when I look back as I've gone through
the last few years of, you know, building
this business and working with my clients
in the way that I work with them now,
and understanding kind of my own expertise,
my own zone of genius,
you know, what drives me and what I'm great
at. It actually goes all the way back to
childhood because I grew up training as an
athlete. And so, what I learned in those
really formative years from, you know,
four or five years old to sort of, you
know, 16, 17, so much of it was strategic,
analytical, you know, analyzing a course,
a plan, a game, you know, this.
And then applying it in real time,
learning to pivot, learning to adjust,
learning to see what's in front and, you
know, attack.
Strategy comes from war.
And then we turned it into kind of sports
and business.
But really, so much of that is what I
learned through sports.
And then on the other side, I learned a
lot about leadership in team sports.
And I learned my style of leadership is so
much around kind of leading almost from
behind, like servant leadership and making
sure that everybody understands their
role, how it fits into the bigger game
plan, that they feel included, really
celebrating wins and progress.
And I realized that so much of that, which
is, you know, what makes me who I am,
which makes me great at what I do, which,
you know, allows me to support my clients
actually really, really started back then.
So, you know, and even things like
learning how we learn, right?
So when you train, you are training for a
level of elite, you are really drilling in
and a skill over and over.
And then you're applying it and then
you're finessing it and then you're
finessing it and you also don't get to
choose when to go apply it.
Like the competition day is this day.
So like ready or not, here we go.
And that's a lot of entrepreneurship too,
right?
If you just sit and try to wait until
you're perfect, you're never going
anywhere.
And so I think those elements of like
strategic thinking, analytical thinking,
learning to pursue excellence, but be able
to, you know, play and present and show up
in the moment and really how to lead in a
way that inspires and brings us standard
of excellence to a group of individuals.
I really do think that so much of that
started in my time in athletics.
And I really am so grateful for that
because believe it or not, I was so quiet,
so shy.
I, you know, I really never fit in.
And yet somehow in this one realm, I
really excelled and became a leader.
And I think that that's really important
to note as well because we see often
leaders that are on magazine covers or TV
and we think that everyone who's a good
leader is bold and maybe a little, you
know, eccentric and really outspoken.
And actually, if you would look at the
statistics, majority of successful
entrepreneurs, they have different kind of
zones of genius, but they're not people
who are innately camera facing or loud or
the first person up.
They find what works for them and then
they find a way to connect that to other
people, both kind of clients and team.
Right.
You know, it's funny because I had never
thought about it the way you've just
described it, that part of what may have
contributed to my comfort moving into this
space was spending 20 years, 20 plus years
as a dancer.
You're used to getting feedback, you know,
harsh and critical feedback, sometimes
even feedback about things that you can't
really change about your, like I had a
dance teacher telling me, you know, you
haven't got this type of body or your
turnout will never be what, you know, what
a ballet dancers turn out.
And, but that just forced me to say, oh
yeah, well, I'm going to push myself to
make that happen.
And it, but you get, you start to see
feedback as constructive and shaping you
and forming you into the better you.
Whereas we sort of, when I observe other
people and their reaction to feedback who
have not had those sort of, that's that
harsh school of, of, of sports excellence
and athletic excellence and a dance, they
see it as a personal attack and not as a
constructive tool to the better you, the
future and better you.
You know, I think that's such a great, um,
yeah, I'd love that you pulled that out
because I think agree, you know, the, the
way of coaching, especially in the
generations that we come from, right?
Like there was no parents stepping in back
in my day.
Um, they weren't even around most of the
time.
Like, you know, coaching was pretty rough,
pretty direct.
Um, and sports also is very, again, you
have to take it in and act on it because
you're in training.
Fair enough.
You have maybe some time to take in the
feedback and work through it.
And there are longer arcs of development,
let's say, but there's also when you are
on a field, on a pitch, in a ring,
whatever you're doing, and someone is
shouting at you from the corner, you
instantly take that in and address it if
you want to succeed.
Right.
And so that not only take it as
constructive, but also kind of like the
rapid iterations, I think is something
that sports really teaches you.
And your other point about the sort of, I
think there is the other side of just
being resilient and determined.
So I had an experience much later on, not
in sports, where somebody basically told
me like, what I wanted to do was
unreasonable, that I should spend more
time on my plan B.
And I remember being a little bit
crestfallen because these were, these were
the academic advisors in my master's
program, basically telling me that I, my
aspirations were pretty damn lofty.
And I was choosing the hardest industries
to approach and that really, maybe I want
to spend more time on plan B.
And I was like, aren't you supposed to
help me like achieve my goals?
But do you know what?
I look back and I realize, despite
everything, you know, I was the youngest
person in my program.
I had so much imposter syndrome.
I kind of didn't even like clearly say
what I wanted when I got in, because I was
afraid they would be like, that's
impossible.
We're not going to take you.
But once I was in, I was like, this is
what I want, you know, like I'm here to
play.
And that was probably the best thing they
could have said, because if they had been
like, oh, it's tough, but like, we'll help
you.
Like, I probably would have got there.
I don't know.
But being told like, no, you know, check
your dreams.
I was like, excuse me.
Yeah.
And I went on to be in the top 5% of my
class, despite being the youngest, being
the this.
I went on to get one of the only jobs,
right?
I was during the housing crisis.
So one of the only jobs in that industry,
when people the year before still didn't
have jobs.
I went on to be asked to come back by
those same people to speak to students
about the industry, about getting the
jobs, about that.
And then I went on to excel in that
industry.
And that sounds really not humble and I
don't mean it to be, but I actually think
the way that I'm wired, probably partly
from sports was like, yeah, tell me it's
too high.
Tell me it's too big.
Tell me I should slow down.
No.
Exactly.
And you, what I'm hearing from you also is
you set your goals.
Like you don't allow someone else to
impose those goals on you.
The other thing that you said that really
resonated with me, and I should have
realized when we met years and years and
years and years ago, that that was also
something that made us such kindred
spirits is that you are driven by servant
leadership.
And that's your leadership style and
approach.
And it's very much my leadership style and
approach.
I learned servant leadership in my days at
FedEx.
And it has shaped the person that I have
become and I consider and continue to
evolve to be the best servant leader that
I can.
But for those of you who don't know
servant leadership, it's really a way of
elevating and driving performance through
your team, through driving excellence
through the people around you.
And your role as a leader is to support
and create opportunities and develop and
push your team to excellence, as opposed
to pushing yourself at the forefront of
excellence and being at the front.
You're behind pushing your team forward
and through that, you all excel and shine
together, as opposed to necessarily often
the leader at the front looks like they're
the superstar when you're supported by a
whole team of superstars.
Yeah.
So let's shift focus, because one of the
things I keep talking here about the fact
that we go way back.
So for my audience's benefit, Alex and I
met in super tense, super intense
circumstances where all the things she's
just described, she literally had to pull
all that out of her experience and baggage
to apply those skills in the moment.
Because we were in a huge, high stakes
negotiation, but we were also in a world
that historically women don't lead, women
aren't necessarily seen as the leaders and
the decision makers, which, and we were
also in an environment where the
expectation that was set forth for us
Was to achieve goals that in their 60 year
history, they had never achieved so it was
to not have a labour stoppage, not to have
a, to have an agreement that was mutually
satisfactory so that we would have optimal
performance from, from the, the, the team.
So it was unusual circumstances, and you
came in, and I'd love for you to share
with my audience sort of what that was
like and what strategies did you pull on
to get the best outcomes because, you
know, a lot of that stuff was firsts for
you, but you wouldn't have known it to
watch you.
Yeah, I mean, such an incredible
experience and, as you said, intense to
say the least, it was my first project
after graduating, you were my first
client, I got thrown in there, I met you
in your office before I even went into my
office.
So, it was wild.
It was really amazing, though, because
one, you know, I really was so excited to
dive into the mining industry and
understand a lot of the things that I
think, you know, people are like, how did
you end up in that?
And I said, well, I was really interested
in kind of like financial systems and
energy, natural resources, because there
are two things that people either don't
think about, or they think are just like
terrible.
And, like, yeah, some parts of it aren't
great, but we can't, at this point, live
without them.
So, you know, better, why don't we
understand them better?
And, you know, then we went through the
financial housing crisis, and I was like,
okay, I think we understand what happens
when you mess around with those systems.
So, you know, I was so excited to be
coming into your industry, and then I
actually had done all these, like, weekend
seminars on negotiations.
So, it was really incredible timing to get
to bring these into a very real situation,
as you said, with extremely critical goals
and high expectations and serious
operational impacts, potential operational
impacts.
I think what was really amazing is that,
you know, across the team that was
supporting, we had this incredible depth
of knowledge that we were able to leverage
into a really solid structure.
And I just, I am a fan, I'm trying not to
have too many tangents here, but I think
there's a difference between structure and
rules.
So, I'm a, I'm a, like, F the rules, I'll
try to, try to, like, watch my language.
You know, I'm not a, like, rules are the
be-all and end-all person.
I think there's a lot to be said for
challenging them, but I actually think
structure sets us free and gives us a lot
of flexibility.
So, we had this truly formidable team with
this wide range of skills, and then we
turned that into structures across the
different components of kind of the
process leading up to negotiations, the
negotiation table, the roles that we
assigned within that framework, and that
everyone really, again, speaking about
successful teams, knew their role.
And how their role, trusting that other
people were doing the other roles.
And I think the framework was really based
on the strategy of mutually beneficial
outcomes, and truly understanding the
needs and the drivers of the people across
the table, of the people, you know, that
were, I'm going to say, behind us at our
table.
And I often reflect on, you know, when I'm
feeling a little bit challenged about
where the world is at, those kinds of
experiences and how privileged I am to
have experienced so many different people
and so many different cultures and be able
to kind of think about why people behave
in certain ways and what is important to
them.
And I think that allows us to connect with
people in the world, not just at a
negotiation table or at a, you know, a
boardroom.
And I think for me, it really helps me be
more open-minded, a lot less intolerant of
maybe views and be someone who is
ultimately quite solutions-oriented,
really looking at, like, a range of
stakeholders.
And I think that project, that first
project, we did a lot, but I think that
first project really exemplifies that.
Like, we were so intentional and so
calculated sounds like a bad word, but in
this way, I mean it in a good way of not
allowing something to, you know, sidetrack
the table.
Because of an emotion or a reaction or a
bias or ill-informed, you know, in the
moment, like, we really, really had
everything so structured and so nailed
down that the people at the table, again,
they knew what we were there for.
They knew what the goal of the day was,
the intention, and they were ready to
leave space and not react because that
would have been detrimental, right?
And we saw that on the other side of the
table where they were not going through
any of the exercises, practices.
I don't want to assume exactly what they
were doing, but, you know, we had people
on the other side of the table who had, I
would say, extreme emotional reactions in
certain moments, that if we had then
counter-reacted to that, I mean, you know,
it would have been the equivalent of war
in a, you know, small negotiations room.
Hopefully no one physically would have
been hurt.
Which is historically what it had been
like, right?
Exactly.
You know, like, it would have been that,
like, you know, almost, like, cinematic,
like, screaming and banging of fists and
this.
And, you know, there was a little bit of
that on the other side of the table, but
because our side had practiced all of
these skills for months was so clear that
people were able to, what you mentioned
even about servant leadership, not take
things personally, you know, and sports
and all that, like, not take it
personally.
Realize that someone was having a
reaction, hold some space, maybe ask a
question, maybe stay silent, maybe take a
break.
And these are all things that, you know,
thankfully we're hearing more and more,
like, these things serve you in all walks
of life.
Right?
It's so true.
Like, it's funny, I hadn't even thought
about that experience in quite the way
you've characterized it, but you're right,
it was so formative in casting the right
people for their roles.
So, you had no feeling that you, at any
point, that you didn't have the right
person in the right roles in all of the,
and it was a complex situation.
And there were a lot of different roles.
But to your point, everybody knew what
their job was at that table.
And everybody trusted that the people
around them knew what their job was, and
were going to execute on that, their
roles.
And that's, and it allowed for certain
things to happen on the other side of the
table that, to your point, didn't derail
the process.
It could have derailed the process and
historically had.
The other thing that, you know, I want to
share with our audience that was a real
takeaway for both of us was we, and you
just spoke to it, is we were prepared.
Like, there were points where we were
preparing that you thought, oh my gosh, we
have to run through this again.
Like, we would, we ran through scenarios
for months, every day, all day, for
months, we ran through scenarios.
And it allowed for the fact that when you
encounter things, even if it wasn't
verbatim, the scenario that you had done,
in your toolbox, you had somewhere,
something that helped you to respond in
the moment.
And it was really, and it was really a
tremendous learning experience, little
hint, I had never negotiated before.
So I, like Alex, had done all the training
in negotiations, I was a certified
mediator, but I had never done a labour
negotiations before.
But I did understand the principles of
conversations with people, how to
de-escalate a situation, how to negotiate
effectively, and it served us really well.
So now let's switch gears to Alex leaves
all of that work, that first intense,
like, do your master's degree, and then
frankly get a PhD in a huge project that
she did with us, which was enormously
successful.
Not only were we able to achieve goals and
milestones within the organization, but we
achieved milestones that had never before
been achieved in that province before.
So we had really, it was successful on
every front, and Alex was an integral part
of that.
And then you went off to work in multiple
industries, where frankly, much like
mining, people who look like yourself and
myself are not in abundance, and certainly
not in leadership roles, in roles of
influence, guiding decisions.
So what was that like?
Like, what were your experiences?
Yeah, it's funny, because I, for so long,
just, I didn't know any different.
I was so achievement and merit-driven that
I probably was a pretty bad feminist
growing up, you know?
Honestly, I never fit in, and so a lot of,
and where I did fit in tended to be
male-dominated.
So I was often the only girl, and I kind
of fit in with the guys, and I got along
with the guys.
And I, you know, like, went toe-to-toe
with them, and, you know, I pushed, right?
I went from, I worked on a farm, I played
rugby, I worked in medicine, I did a
master's degree where, you know, we had
like a record of women in the program, and
I think it was 20%.
Like, that was like a big deal back then.
You know, and even within that, I chose,
you know, strategy and finance, and, you
know, those.
And then I went into strategy consulting
in mining and energy and natural
resources.
Then I went into mergers and acquisitions.
Then I left and went into tech startups.
And then we merged our tech startup into
the cannabis space.
And, like, it's just, like, yeah, talk
about, like, just absolutely swimming in
the most male-dominated industries and
streams.
And I think, look, over time, I think I
realized I was facing a lot of the things
that we hear about.
And a lot of, you know, assumptions get
made.
And I've had, you know, I've had clients
assume that I'm an assistant or a junior
or this when we, you know, show up in the
office before the introductions get
started.
And, yeah, some of them have had pretty
funny, you know, reactions when they
realize that I'm, you know, the director
or the project lead or the engagement lead
or whatever that title is.
And some are graceful about it, others
less so.
I've had experiences where after, you
know, two hours of presenting and, you
know, four years of working with that
organization, an executive stands up and
asks me what qualifies me to advise them,
which I think is not impossible, but would
be less likely to happen to, you know, a
more typical white male, you know,
colleague.
And then I think there's some, like, more
doldrum things where I've had experiences
where people have maybe spoken to myself
or my team members, honestly, more of my
team members, because I'm like a mama
bear.
It's like, absolutely not.
And they seem, like, really genuinely
surprised when I have held a boundary or
stood up to them, right?
And you keep in mind, these are clients
paying millions of dollars for our teams
to do work.
And suddenly there's me saying, like, this
is not appropriate.
You can't engage with the team that way.
You can't speak to people that way.
You know, I don't think you speak to
anyone in your team that way, but
definitely not mine.
And we always worked it out once they
realized that I genuinely wasn't.
I think I am fortunate, and I want to be
careful how I say this, but I was honestly
very shut down when I was younger, so I
was not very emotional.
Right, okay.
And I don't think emotions are bad, and I
don't think women are more emotional than
men.
Testosterone makes us more emotional, but I
do think, given, you know, again, not kind
of looking like the typical person on the
fields that we worked in, being quite.
Unflappable.
Yeah, unflappable did help.
Unflappable.
Because I was able to, and it doesn't mean
that inside I wasn't, like, feeling
whatever, but I think the ability to be
quite straight-faced and quite direct.
Learn when to, like, stop talking and let
someone sit in discomfort when they are
very clearly in the wrong and often being
quite emotional at me for having called
them on something was a massive, massive,
just advantage at that point.
And I don't even know if I would be that
way now.
I'm much, you know, more fluid, and I
think my face speaks a lot more than it
used to be.
But you're allowed to be.
I think what I'm hearing from you is
something that I experienced, that any
woman who has been someone who broke
ground in industries or spaces, and I
don't think it's just a woman thing, it's
anyone from an underrepresented group
forging ground in new territory.
We are not afforded the license to do
certain things that other people who
have traditionally been in that space
would get away with. So having the
ability, and I'm sure that you actually
drew on your experience in sports
Yeah.
And there's moments where it's like,
listen, I have danced when I've been in
excruciating pain because I've got an
injury, but the show must go on.
And so you just suck it up and you get out
there and you did your thing.
And then you bawled after, but you didn't,
oh, yeah, certainly didn't bawl in the
moment you did it and you, you don't even
know how you managed to stand.
Because after that, for some reason you
couldn't stand at all, you just couldn't
put any weight on your leg, but in the
moment you're dancing away.
And I'm sure you went through all that in
sports where no one wants to see you
sweat, no one wants, no one is here for
it.
And so being in a space where no one is
here for it, which is the workspace,
you've already built those skills to be
able to say, listen, this is not the time
I will have my meltdown, but I'll have it
later.
Or I will not have my meltdown because
I've worked it through in my head or I've
built the skills that allow me to sort of
work, compartmentalize this, whatever.
These are skills that we have to develop
and they actually serve us in many ways in
other areas of the work that we do.
So it's actually a skill set that you have
to develop, but it serves you in many
other ways.
Completely agree.
And I think, you know, I'll extend that to
some of the other places where I've
experienced that, where I think what
you're saying also is like, no, remember
what your goal is, right?
Like in the situation of maybe my team and
my dad, I'm like, I have a very clear
goal, which is not to blow this project up
or to embarrass this executive at all, but
I have a clear goal.
And so is my reaction, is my response in
service?
And I think response is more what you want
than reaction in service to this.
And I think it's the same, you know,
there's the insidious things too, right?
You know, the questions or assumptions
that people would make about, you know,
lifestyle of like what women are capable
of or where your life is going to go or
whether promotions were given on merit or
because you spent so much time with your
male colleagues or superiors.
They were all male.
So like whatever time I was spending with
them and it's like, I could get really
upset about that or I could just keep out
working them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, um, in startup world was
honestly the worst.
Um, I did not realize that everyone had
some level of boundaries in corporate and
so there were things, but honestly, when I
went into startup world, um, it was like
two sides.
Either got asked if I was my business
partner's wife, um, which just killed me,
you know, like this was someone who had
brought me into their organization because
they were like, I need X, Y, and Z.
And like, you are the person who is going
to take us to the next level and all of
these things.
And like, we had a great relationship, but
you know, we're out networking, we're out
at this, we're at events, I'm speaking.
And it's always like, Oh, are you
someone's, Oh, are you so-and-so's
Wife? No.
Yeah.
I'm still dealing with this, you know, or
I would get propositioned.
I would have people set meetings with me
with no intention of doing business and
those, those were hard.
Um, those were tough and, and frustrating,
but the worst was I had someone I
considered a mentor for a really long
time, very above board.
I knew their family and, um, yeah, there
was a, like long story short, there came a
moment where they propositioned me.
And I, thankfully it was like at a
distance, like over email.
Um, and it was late and I was, you know,
working on something really hard.
It was a late Friday night.
I was in the office.
Our team was out setting up like an event
that we were running.
It was a really big deal.
It was like international film, best
stuff.
And I remember getting this email and I
cried.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I cried and I cried and I look back and of
course I can see it now and it's, you
know, nothing to do with me, but I just
remember being, you know, this was someone
I had mentored their, their daughter.
I had met their whole family, you know,
like I, you know, it would just been this
really, you know, great relationship, um,
you know, business and, and friendship,
but very much like a, you know, mentor
type role.
And, and yeah, I just remember being
absolutely broken, um, by that in the
moment, you know, it was so
disillusioning.
And I was like, immediately like, Oh my
God, this person has never respected me.
They've never thought this, you know, they
came around and apologized and this and
said, you know, they'd been out for a
boozy lunch and this and that.
And I, but I just, yeah, I think as a, I
think that is an experience that is fairly
unique to women and I, yeah, I think
there's just, if there's like one thing in
work that I would, if I could like erase
for women, that feeling, it just really
rocks you.
It is the one area that I agree with you
that like you, it takes a lot to
destabilize me.
It takes a lot, but that area of taking in
a world where you're used to navigating.
I don't want to say it's hostile, but
where it's, it's, you're always being
reminded of you, you don't quite belong.
And in that world, when you cleave to
these people who you feel are the people
who are in your camp with you and you
discover that they're not who they profess
to be in that vulnerability of like, you
feel that you can take on the world.
Well, if you've got those people, but if
they're not who you think they are, it
just sort of calls into question,
everybody else in your orbit in a world
that's, that's already, I don't want to
say hostile, but I mean, just not designed
for you.
That's exactly it.
It's not designed for you.
So you are, you know, navigating as a
round peg in a square obstacle course.
And you have these places where you feel
seen and supported and safe to really be
yourself.
And so when one of those kind of changes,
it is destabilizing.
And I think, you know, I would say the
same thing takes a lot to, to kind of like
shake me.
But yeah, like I was very grateful in that
moment that I was alone at, you know,
whatever time in the evening on a Friday
in the office, because I just had a big
cry.
And then I will say, and you know what, I
do not advocate this, like, I think you
should have a cry and you should be able
to like go home and chill.
But I had a cry and then I pulled myself
together and got back to work.
And then I had to run over to this thing
site because there were some tools needed.
And then I came back and kept working on
whatever financial model, you know, and
great.
I'm grateful that I'm so resilient.
And I think that you should actually also
be able to sit and process that
experience.
I don't think you should just get back to
work.
Exactly.
But you do you, which is what I'm hearing
here.
But it is a learning.
Yeah, I will say on the other side, I do
think that overall being underestimated, I
have found it to be fine.
Like, I don't want to say it's amazing
because sometimes it's really frustrating.
Sometimes it's annoying.
Sometimes people really push back and tell
you like that they thought you were X, Y,
and Z when they met you.
And then I'm like, well, what do you think
about like, well, now I've seen you work.
So absolutely.
I'm like, so was it really helpful to tell
me that you thought I was overconfident
when you met me?
Like, thanks for that.
But I do think, you know, I've just always
fallen back on hard work, on experience.
And I say that.
And then I also see how systematically
it's very problematic.
And I think I now make a very concerted
effort to mentor women in business,
particularly, but in other areas as well.
If pretty much anyone who asks me, I will
try to find the time to give them at least
some element of guidance if I can.
Because I do think I outworked most people
around me.
And I do.
I didn't see it at the time I was, I was
doing it because of my own issues around
achievement and value and, you know, all
of that.
But I do think systematically it's a
problem.
And I do think generally most women you
see in high positions have had to outwork.
Men, not the men that they surpassed, but
the men who are in equivalent positions.
And I do think that's a problem.
And it's funny because my mother, she
drilled into our heads this whole notion
of paying it forward and, you know, taking
the struggles that you've had to go
through to somehow remove a barrier or
facilitate someone else's journey.
And it's just so that my audience knows,
to talk about this full circle.
So Alex, getting out of her master's
degree, first job she gets, she's working
with me.
And I think we both learned a lot in the,
in, we did multiple projects together just
so that everybody knows, because she was a
superstar from the get go.
And then I just kept her with me at every
project I had.
But when I entered the entrepreneurial
space, one of the first people I contacted
was Alex to mentor me in this new space
for me.
So, and, and I was a very late bloomer
when it came to the entrepreneurial space.
And I also was someone who was
philosophically as a feminist frustrated
with this push, pushing women into the
entrepreneurial space because I felt it
was a cop-out for not advancing women in
the corporate world to senior leadership.
And we just sort of pushed them into being
entrepreneurs as a way of saying, you
know, hush, shut up and put up, like, just
go off and do this thing in your little
world and stay out of our plate, our
sandbox.
But I love being an entrepreneur.
I've discovered this passion around what I
do.
And Alex was a key advisor for me in a new
space.
So talk to me about, you know, being a
female entrepreneur in, you know,
non-traditional industries for women.
Like tech is not a space that you see a
lot of female entrepreneurs unless they're
doing sort of female type tech.
I hate to say this, but, you know, that
kind of thing.
So what's the biggest misconception about
success that you wish more people
understood in the entrepreneurial space
and the role of authenticity?
Because I've found that authenticity has
been sort of my guiding light, but it's
also been something that I've had to
manage.
That, yes.
Okay.
Let me first just say thank you so much
for those kind words.
And you were actually, I think, probably
my first kind of female mentor or even
just woman in business I got to look up
to.
And one of very few I had in my career.
So I love this circular nature.
But, you know, you've been mentioned in
magazine interviews and things I've given.
Because you were really, I think it's very
serendipitous that I got to work with you
coming right out of my program.
And we did so many groundbreaking
projects.
And it was just, yeah, it was really
amazing.
So I just want to say thank you for that.
And then I will never forget when you
reached out to me and said that you had a
challenge and I was the first person you
thought of.
Without hesitation.
Yeah.
So I, and I do think that that is really
invaluable.
And I understand that now in a way I just
didn't understand when I was younger.
Because I just, you know, I just existed
in a very male-dominated world.
I think entrepreneurship is, I mean, it's
so much less sexy and more lonely than
what we see online.
And don't get me wrong.
I love that it's out there.
I love that people are more aware of it or
talking about it.
I don't love that everyone is selling you
the course of how to leave your nine to
five and make a million dollars.
Like have your private jet because it's
bullshit.
But, you know, entrepreneurship in
general, regardless of gender, is just
truly the personal development course that
none of us signed up for.
It will bring up, you know, all of your
stuff.
Yep.
And I think you have to confront a lot of
it in order to succeed and to enjoy it.
Because if you don't, you're going to be
fighting.
And I think that's where a lot of the
authenticity comes in.
You say authenticity.
I look at the stack underneath.
I look at self-awareness.
Yes.
I look at, you know, emotional regulation.
I look at communication and boundaries and
all of these things that give you the
platform to show up as you.
Because to show up as you isn't just I say
what I say and, you know, I joked about
watching my mouth.
But, like, yeah, you know what?
Like my mouth isn't that corporate
anymore.
And that's part of my brand and that's who
I am.
And the people I work with are fine with
that.
And the people who aren't, that's fine.
Right?
It's like you don't want to be vanilla.
Because no one is going to war for
vanilla.
Right?
Exactly.
You know, nobody hates it, but nobody is
declaring it's their favorite and arguing
with their friend.
You want to be that unique flavour that the
10% of people who love you, love you.
And they keep coming back for more.
And it's a little divisive, but, like,
that's what you want to be.
And that's when we talk about
authenticity, that's what it is.
Because when you're authentic, it calls in
the clients, it calls in the colleagues,
it calls in, you know, the partnerships
and everything that match your vibe.
It's your values, it's your values, it's
how it's what you want to feel when you
show up to work, which is a beautiful
thing about entrepreneurship.
If you do it right, and you're genuine,
you build something that you enjoy, and
you attract people who also enjoy it from,
you know, again, client and colleagues and
team members.
But I think the role of authenticity to
truly be authentic, there is a lot of work
that goes in to being able to be
authentic.
And I think that is something that also
changes.
And if you cannot recognize when you are
going through an evolution and accept it,
and it doesn't mean you have to broadcast
it the minute it starts happening.
But if, let's say, you know, over the
period of three or four years, you really
shift, you expand your view, and you
shift, and you have these things, and you
try to stay in this, you know,
front-facing version of you, like, that
dissonance is exhausting.
Yeah, it doesn't work.
And the people around you, like, as
humans, we have bullshit meters, right?
And with the advent of the internet, that
is even bigger, just in the sense of we
live our lives more online, information is
more available.
You know, there's an expression that's,
you know, how you do one thing is how you
do everything.
It used to be that so much was, like, away
from work, and entrepreneurship has always
been, you know, more bonded, I would say.
But, you know, it used to be things were
away from work, and you kind of showed up
at work, and people just knew you there,
and that was it.
And people accepted that it was more
separate, right?
You look at the cliche of, you know, the
boss is respected, but he cheats on his
wife, and on this, and he's, you know.
Exactly.
Cheats a poker, I don't know, whatever
version of, you know, not being an
integrity.
Or it speaks about all these values that
they profess to have around taking care of
their people, or, you know, integrity in
all of their practices.
And then behind the scene, you see someone
who doesn't give a poop about their
people, and doesn't, like, that
dissonance, you're right, you can't get
away with that the way you used to.
And speaks down, and breaks trust, and,
you know, that just isn't going to cut it.
No, I agree.
These days.
And, you know, again, people have this
internal meter where we're like, something
doesn't feel right, and the world is
different.
People are just like, eventually, and be
like, that's just no.
Or it's actually information that is
visible, is available, and people can more
objectively say, well, that just doesn't
align, and that doesn't feel great, right,
you know.
But it's so true, because as I hear you
talking, one of the reasons why it's been
fairly fluid as we've grown our business
and our firm is because I spent the time
on the front end.
And so I have real clarity on what our
mission is, what our values are, what
we're trying to accomplish as a business,
and why we're here, why we show up, and
why we're here.
And so I don't get swayed, deviated off
course.
That doesn't mean that there's not cool,
interesting ideas that come to play that
take us in a new direction, but they're
always tied to that core.
And part of it comes from being who I am,
and the reason we started this was
something that was burning within, that I
really wanted to do.
And so I love that you're saying that you
have to take the time to really understand
who you are, and that investment makes
everything else sort of flow into place,
you know, fall into place.
Right, because I start with my clients
with this, right, like I do strategy, I do
operations, I do, you know, structure and
team and process and governance, but I
start with the vision.
And that is, why are you doing this?
Yeah.
What are the values of the organization,
which should tie to yours, are not going
to be one for one, but, you know, what is
this, what are the values of this entity
that you are creating this experience?
And also, what do you, you know, why are
you doing this in the bigger picture?
And then what do you want your life to be
like when it gets there?
What's your role?
What's this?
How does that look?
How does it feel?
Because it is so easy to get swept up in
shoulds or the new thing.
And what I say is, one, there's no wrong
answer, like, be honest with yourself, so
you can be honest with me, because we are
going to work hard to build something.
So you might as well build something that
at the end feels good, and you don't
resent it, and it's not draining you.
Right.
Right.
But also, really, be honest, because I
actually don't think there's a wrong
answer.
I think we don't want to admit things
because we have judgments about them a lot
of the time.
Yes.
But, you know, so many of my clients, a
lot of them are, like, first generation of
an education level or of a business owner
or of a certain level.
And so they're like, well, I, you know, I
want to earn, like, they don't, almost
don't want to say, like, I want to earn
this much.
They're like, I want to do good things to
my team.
And they do.
They genuinely are too nice.
My clients are all too nice.
I love that.
Like, I love that brand.
Like, I'm that way too.
Right.
And, like, too nice is sometimes a
disservice.
So we, like, we just have to, we have to,
like, transform the nice.
Exactly.
They don't want to say things like, well,
I want to earn this much money.
And I'm like, first of all, there's
nothing wrong with money.
Right.
And I have all kinds of money stories.
I, you know, I was like, oh, my God, I'm
not, like, starving.
I need to martyr myself.
So, like, don't get me wrong.
This comes from a place of empathy.
But it's like, well, for most of them,
when you really break it down, because I
ask some hard questions, they want to earn
money to be able to provide stability for
their family.
Or to build something in their community.
Or to, you know, pay off their parents'
mortgage because their parents worked five
jobs to allow them to, like, go to school
because their parents didn't get to.
And I'm like, in what world?
Like, that is not bad.
That's beautiful.
You feel bad about that.
Exactly.
Right?
Like, that's amazing.
There's other people who have other
reasons.
And I'm just, like, yes, I love it.
If you come to me and you're like, Alex, I
want to change the world.
Love it.
I want to save the world.
Love it.
Love it.
But wanting to earn money to, like, change
the game for your family or your
community.
Amazing.
Exactly.
You know?
But you know what?
I want the audience to capture this
because I came to Alex and she helped me
early on.
And then as we were growing, she helped.
She came in again to help us.
And she'll come in again.
But I had never taken the time to actually
ask myself the question that Alex has just
put
in front of us here.
I never thought about the money.
I know it sounds weird.
It sounds really weird to someone say
they're an entrepreneur and they never
thought about
what is your goal money-wise.
But it had always been the goal of the
mission of the organization.
And I never factored in to what size, to
what, like, is it for sale?
Is it to set it up to be sold?
Like, all of these things that I'd never
asked myself that Alex helped me to get
clarity on.
And putting it through the lens of to do
what, which is another thing I hadn't
thought about
that Alex brought to the conversations
that she and I had, has really also given
me a lot
of clarity around the decisions I make
going forward.
So both organizationally, how we structure
the business, is future focused.
The decisions we make about the products
and services that we develop and launch
is, like,
it's through this lens of where are we
going.
And that's a piece of that that, you know,
we don't think about.
And I think there is a female element to
that, that we women are sort of socially,
we are,
it's drilled into our head to almost think
that asking for money or asking about
money
or aspiring to make big money is some sort
of anathema or some sort of judgment on,
you
know, your this, that, and the other.
Whereas to your, like, to your earlier
point, I'm not convinced that if a, you
know, a white
man asks, set those goals, those lofty
goals, not that other goals aren't lofty,
but had set
those concrete goals to make more money
for X, Y, Z reason, that anyone would cast
any judgment
on, on those decisions.
So I think that's where some of that comes
from.
It's like, does this mean I'm a bad
person?
Because that's what I want.
Yeah.
And, and do, you know, I love helping
people impact is what gets me out of bed.
And, you know, the dwindling impact with
the mounting amount of money in consulting
is part
of why I left.
Right.
So like, I love it.
And there is a part of me that's like, I
wish I could just help everybody for free.
amazing, but learning to ask for and
accept, you know, remuneration for the
value that I
provide.
And as someone who grew up very in their
masculine, like has been massively
difficult.
And I think, but I think to your point,
you know, I would say, you know, we're
veering into
other topics, but like masculine and
feminine, I operated on my masculine for
most of my career,
most of my life.
And I've really worked to find more
balance in a way that like, in a way that
works for
me, not because I should, not because
anyone's telling me, but like recognizing
where I don't
feel great or different things and
starting to explore that.
But I do think so much of the work I do,
whether it's for men or women in my
clients, I have
both.
I used to work only with men just because
that's where I came from.
And I love now that I have a more
balanced, you know, client network.
But I think that part of what I ask, it's
the more structure, it's the more
masculine,
because also if you aren't setting,
whether it's, you know, money, reach,
size, whatever
goals, then you can't measure to know
whether you're making progress.
To your point, you can't just make
decisions about allocating your resources,
time, energy,
money, whatever.
And the funny thing is, I think the
feminine side of like, take a minute, slow
down.
How does that feel when you think about it
helps people make those more structured,
masculine
decisions and goals in a way that's more
true to themselves?
Because I think otherwise, to your point,
we're going to just make them based off of
whatever
script, right?
So either like, I think money is fine,
maybe I'm more of a man, whatever, you
know,
we're masculine energy, money is great,
super, super specific goals, this hard
work, whatever.
Or I'm someone who's the other and I'm
like, it's just about impact.
It's just about this.
And if you actually sat and thought about
it in your body a little bit more, and you
projected
yourself to the future of how do you want
your days to look?
What are you great at?
What do you want to be doing with your
time and energy versus the organization?
Like that.
So it's an interesting interplay between
those kind of more masculine and feminine.
But I also, I don't know, I think, and you
know this, I mean, the data shows it like
men
and women together is ultimately optimal
for business.
And I think women, we just, for better or
for worse, in today's day and age are
socialized
differently.
There's a whole conversation about that.
Around that.
But I think that women, when we're not
caught up in, you know, competitive
patriarchy BS, we
build more flat hierarchies and cohesion
and I think we leverage diversity in ways
that are
really interesting.
And so I think combining that with, again,
men are socialized too.
But like, if we can combine those and
bring everybody's skills and strengths and
different
ways of working in a respectful manner
where we can, you know, debate and hash it
out because
you can't do everything all the time.
You have to make decisions and go certain
ways.
But I think there's so much power in that.
And I think that's, you know, I think that
is something that through a lot of work as
individuals, we can bring different
components of ourselves to a table.
But ultimately, it's that old adage,
right?
If you want to go fast, go alone.
If you want to go far, go together.
It's so funny because I'll never forget
years and years ago, a team that I was
leading in a
large multinational company, one sort of
team of the year, like they, and it was
the first
Canadian, it was a US-based company and it
was the Canadian division, it was the
first time the
Canadian team won this award.
And I remember people asking me, you know,
you know, what is the secret sauce?
And your point is really valid around
diverse thoughts around the table.
I said, listen, sometimes you gnash your
teeth on how long it takes to make a
decision and
to like talk something through, but I am
never disappointed with the outcome.
I always feel that the ultimate outcome is
better, more sustainable.
But more importantly, speaks to a broader
spectrum of people because we, we worked
in a service
industry and so speaks to a broader
spectrum of, of the, the population.
Then if we just had a bunch of people who
sort of thought the same thing and felt
the same
way and responded the same way, we
probably would have had something that was
successful
and spoke to a segment of the population.
Right.
But I invariably our product end up
product ends up being a beacon to people
that people
go, oh, wow, this is incredible.
And that it, the secret is not a secret.
It is the variety of thoughts that are
brought to the table.
One of the things I did want to finish on,
um, there's two things I want to ask you
before
we, we, we wrap up.
But one of the things is female
entrepreneurs are as successful as male
entrepreneurs.
The data is just the data.
The data is what the data is yet.
We struggle to get funding, to get
financial support to why do you think that
is like, what
would be the advice?
Cause you've been there advising people.
So, yeah, um, it's such a good question.
I think there's, I mean, I think we could
fill the whole podcast with this, just on
this.
Look, I think the challenge comes down to
a lot of what we've talked about, about,
you know,
the lens with which women are viewed in
business, the expectations and societal
programming.
I think some of it comes down to
connections and community, right?
So there is the old boys club has been
around forever.
That is something that is still very new
for women.
I think because women, and this is part of
their success, but the way that it can
translate
when you're out in the investor world.
So women tend to give credit to the team.
They tend to be servant leaders, which
means they don't always talk themselves up
as much,
which a great investor will see.
Right.
But someone who is used to somebody
shoving their accomplishments in their
face and, you
know, believing that person that looks
just like them, of course they must be
great.
Yeah.
I think there's a gap there.
And I think women, again, part of why
they're great, they tend to reinvest in
the organization.
And therefore, on paper, sometimes the
numbers may, again, if you're a great
investor, you
know how to ask their questions.
And again, as a woman, get some coaching
on how to present this.
But the reinvestment in the organization
rather than, you know, removal of profit
can make the
numbers look different.
So there's a lot of things there.
I think this might be an unfair statement,
so I'm just going to caveat it.
But I will say today there is a segment of
women entrepreneurs who are dealing with
women
problems because nobody has been tackling
those.
Yes.
And again, that is so valuable.
But if what's the person sitting on the
other side of the table from you has not
experienced
that problem because they're not a woman,
they don't necessarily see the value of it
and
how big it really is and how much people
will be willing to pay for that problem to
be solved.
So I thought if it comes down to the same
things.
Now, what can you do about it?
One, get some guidance on showing up when
you're pitching for either partnerships or
funding.
Make sure you're asking for enough.
I think that's the other thing.
It's a fine line of you need enough runway
to prove yourself before you ask for more
money.
Otherwise, you're just going to constantly
be raising and diluting yourself.
But at the same time, you don't want to
ask for so much that it's kind of wild.
Or you give away too much equity at a
lower valuation because there's not enough
momentum behind you.
So get some guidance.
Find the right mentors to help you define
all of that, help you how you present it.
And again, authentically.
So find your version, but don't allow too
much of the things that are your strengths
to hamstring you in fundraising and
investor conversations.
So that would be one thing I would say.
I think the other is understand yourself
and own it and go and find your
communities and whether that is, and don't
be afraid to ask for help, basically, is
what I'm saying.
But like figure out where to ask for it
and whether that community is women, other
women, founders, women, business owners,
women, investor networks, which thankfully
are coming up and up and up.
And, you know, Canada has a really solid
number of funds that focus on female
entrepreneurs, which I'm so excited about.
But it also may be around something about
your business or about you.
So it might be your, wherever you're from,
you know, if you're from a tight knit,
either religious or ethnic community, it
might be that community.
If you are building something that is
fundamental to a community, go find your
users and through them find opportunities
for people who can contribute.
It might not be investors, but there's a
lot of ways to contribute to the growth of
a business.
So that's the advice that I give to women
founders, you know, and it's a lot of
advice and it's hard.
But I do think that entrepreneurship is
hard no matter what.
And that's why I say, you know, it isn't
for everyone, not in a gatekeeping way, in
a you have to love the challenge.
You have to have the resilience.
You have to cliche as it is, you know, get
up 10 times after falling down nine and be
kind of jazzed about it.
Exactly, right.
And it doesn't mean you can't have a hard
day and you can't have a cry and you can't
have a day where you just want to stay in
bed.
But you've got to be able to take that
knock on the chin and say, I'm going to
learn from that knock on the chin.
And how am I going to take that learning
into the next challenge, et cetera?
Because, but I can tell you, as someone
who's relatively new to the space, you
know, we founded Synclusiv in 2020.
Some of those knocks on the chin, you're
like, oh my gosh, I'm sick and tired of
losing money or spending money on
something that was a dud.
But you have to spend the money on the
duds to get to that diamond.
And so, but it's something that we're not
used to thinking of.
Alex, this has been so wonderful.
This conversation has been so, I've really
enjoyed this conversation.
But we've had so many, but I really, you
know, it's nice to sort of sit down here
and share how fantastic you are with my
audience.
And, you know, one of the things that I've
heard from you is the core things that
drive you as a person, as an entrepreneur,
as a business professional.
How do you stay true to those values in
what you do?
Like, that's our sync spotlight.
It's the question we ask everybody at the
end of our podcast, because it's the
thread of everything that we do.
So how do you stay true to that?
It's such a good question.
I mean, you know, at the core, I help CEOs
to really restructure the way they run
their businesses, not just the business
itself, but the way they run it so that
they can scale without sacrificing their
life.
And when I say their life, I mean their
values, their boundaries, their priorities
that exist beyond the business and who
they are that makes them amazing and
unique and is what created the business.
So I set my business up from day one
around impact because impact is what gets
me out of bed, both in my client work and
in kind of the space and the resources
that I have to create impact in different
organizations and spheres.
And I know that I'm very privileged to be
able to be selective about who I work
with.
So I work with impact driven leaders and
executives.
I work, as I said before, with people who
often almost care too much.
And we have to work in how we translate
that to effective boundaries and processes
and governance and, frankly, selection,
you know, of people.
And so I think what, you know, often like
we do what we need the most.
Right.
So like what I do for my clients is the
same thing that I have had to go through
for myself, where I have really had to
stay in touch with what drives me and why
I'm doing what I'm doing and whether it's.
Having the impact I would like and intend
in the world, but also whether it is
allowing me to be authentic and be a
healthy, happy version of me.
And so, you know, I talk about, and this
can be a bit of a controversial word, like
wealthy leadership.
Oh, because I believe that wealth is
growing a business that achieves what you
want to achieve in the world, whatever
that is, that earns you enough money to
comfortably live and pursue the things
that are important to you.
Whatever those might be, we're all in
different circumstances, but within which
you get to be healthy, right?
So for me, wealth includes health.
Yes.
Right.
And that's mentally, physically, right?
That's sleeping in a way that works for
you.
That's moving your body in a way that
works for you.
That's nutrition.
That's all of that.
And then also having the bandwidth for
whatever your values and priorities are.
And for majority of my clients, those are
elements of family and community.
Yeah.
And I think for far too long, there is a
belief or a mantra that you have to
sacrifice those things to build the
business and the money.
And for me, wealthy leadership is not
about sacrificing those things.
There are hard days, weeks, months.
There are times we grind a little.
Everything, you know, balances the
the Ć©quilibre [equilibrium],
we're bilingual today.
It will shift.
But if you are clear, if your plan and
your clarity, then strategy that guides
your decisions is clear, then you will be
able to have all of those.
And that is what I believe that's the life
I'm building.
And that is what, you know, my business
helps other people do.
And so, you know, very, very fortunate to
be able to have it be so clear for me.
Well, Alex, it's been such a treat.
You know, thanks so much for joining us.
This inaugural year of our podcast, it
would not have been right without having
you with me.
And so I really appreciate you joining us
and sharing your brilliance and your
experience with the audience, with my
audience, because I've known what you
bring to the table.
And I've watched you pretty much from the
table.
And I've watched you pretty much from the
beginning and evolve into this powerhouse,
badass, you know, business leader.
But with, driven by core values of impact
and staying true to yourself.
I think you're a role model.
And I just so appreciate having you in my
life and in my orbit.
So thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you so much, Nicole.
It was such a pleasure.
And I thank you.
I can't say thank you enough for all your
glowing words.
They really touch me.
It comes from the heart.
Thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to the Sync Podcast.
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Until next time, stay in sync.
